| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
   |
Posted - 2008.03.19 20:52:00 -
[1]
Local means every fight has to be a stand-up fight where both sides are willing to engage, or an obscenely elaborate trap where you are camping the opposite side of every gate in system with a dictor and tackler.
Local makes everyone invulnerable except for idiots who do not understand what a SS chain is. I mine, exclusively now, but I used to PVP and so I can appreciate that this change NEEDS to be implemented. Those saying that the only people who want local removed are pirates looking for a cheap gank are idiots with no grasp of the big picture...
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.19 21:52:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Atsuko Yamamoto
This is a GAME folks, entertainment, not work. Local isn't that bad, people still get ganked, get away, dock up, and so on. I just don't want to put that much serious work into something I do for fun.
Flying 30 jumps in 0.0 until you find someone who is stupid enough to keep ratting instead of going to a SS sounds like work to me...
Non-consensual PVP is what makes this game hardcore. Local is the anathema to non-consensual PVP. Also, why should 0.0 mining not be harder? 0.0 last I checked is supposed to be risky, but I see more hulks getting blown in empire than in 0.0
In fact, I do not see anybody dying in 0.0 that does not want to die, the only non-consensual PVP left is in empire where people think they are safe. I want the pirates to have to look for people, and I want the people to have to look out for pirates.
Local is what makes this game a job, it is what allows macro ratters to do their thing, and it saps the fun from PVP and devalues minerals. If mining was harder minerals would be worth more, and I would have fun mining for massive profits in 0.0 but always being on my toes.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 01:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I'm going to say this once, and after that I'm really done posting in a "nerf local" thread.
Local exists for one purpose, and this is a fact: it allows you to see who is in the system with you.
Period.
Everything that is derived from local after that is because a player used Local to his advantage. Those that choose not to use local cannot complain then that Local is broken because it is an intel gathering tool because they too have the exact same Local as the other guy.
Local is a game mechanic to which everyone can use to their advantage. CCP provides us tools which we can choose to use or not use. Saying local is broken because people can jump into a system and do an analysis of who is there has no ground to stand on because you can just as easily then open the scanner and GET YOUR ACTUAL INTELLIGENCE. I mean, crap.
If I jump into a system in my Ishtar and see 10 hostiles, oh no! I'm gonna die! Wait, I should use my scanner to see what they're flying. Oh, they're all in shuttles. Well, I'm going to be okay.
See, using local in harmony with your other tools makes it a powerful tool and not a problem. Removing it WILL cause the problem.
Finally, I will end my discussion in this thread with an analogy:
Nerf weapons. Weapons cause damage to ships and causes them to explode. The people with the most weapons wins, because they can out-damage their opponent. How do you solve this problem? Get more weapons. It is not CCP's problem to provide you with more weapons, so use the game mechanics to do it yourself.
Yes nice analogy, a hyperbolic strawman, what a brilliant defense of local.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 05:06:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 20/03/2008 05:09:04
Let me give you guys a scenario here...
I am mining in a hulk in 0.0
I see a neutral/hostile in local
I warp to SS 1/10
I warp to SS 2/10
I warp to SS 3/10
I warp to SS 4/10
I warp to SS 5/10
I warp to SS 6/10
I warp to SS 7/10
I warp to SS 8/10
I warp to SS 9/10
I warp to SS 10/10
I warp to SS 11/10 (the first replacement I made) and continue on my cycle for fifteen minutes, warping to the next spot as soon as I arrive and making more safe-spots the whole time so I never use the same one twice.
You cannot kill me, ever. And if I had a cloak fitted (Ie. a ratting ship setup) it would be EVEN EASIER for you to never kill me, ever.
If one of you can come up with a solution to that without the removal of local let me know, otherwise local has got to go because only fools and the people who want to fight are going to be losing ships, which is the whole problem. Not to mention making the only alliance fights stand-up napoleonic ATTACKERS HERE--> pewpewpewpew <--DEFENDERS HERE , with absolutely no strategy besides blobs and primaries and the grand strategy of "hm shall we attack their shipyards at system A and crash the node or their shipyards at system B and crash the node".
I reiterate, local needs to be removed and replaced by Constellation chat, and in Constellation chat it must be forced "recent speakers only" mode. The poster above me points out something great that will happen, instead of letting a hundred guys control an entire region because they can watch intel channels and hit any hostile coming through the choke-points the major alliances will be forced to only control as much space as they can effectively guard, which will open up HUGE swathes of 0.0 that currently sit unoccupied because the "owners" block all access and then never use them.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 05:17:00 -
[5]
Absolutely right they might find a way around it, but do you think the major alliances have enough covert ops alts to park across 100 systems and scan every 5-10 minutes? I mean realistically it will take scans every single sixty seconds in most systems, because a fleet of 100 could warp in, warp to next gate, and warp out within two minutes. And if you plan to see that you have to be sitting and watching and waiting all day every day.
I doubt even BoB has a hundred players willing to watch all their border worlds like that.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 05:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Removing Local will result in at least a loss of a third of subscriptions within 90 days, the game can't take that kind of hit and expect the same quantity of new content.
First off stop trying to hunt the hulk down. Its not like he has a choice. Assuming he's selling his ore on the market everyone can buy it, he has no choice as to who gets it. (Same with any product).
You will never defeat the farmers. They come to every game and generally they adapt much more quickly and efficiently than the general populace to changes. The sad fact to is that without them the ships and modules you fly would probably cost 4 or 5 times what they do now, and you'd have immense shortages. (You'd also have extreme difficulty maintaining all those 0.0 POSs....). If you change the rules they'll adapt.
They are a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is people with money are willing to spend that money to gain an advantage within a virtual reality or game. It is sad that some feel they need to do this, it's like the guy that sticks a couple 100s under his side of the board in Monopoly every time you play, or the guy that stacks the deck for a rummy card game. They feel that they have to get ahead whatever the costs. The end to them justifies the means. It is a social issue. Unfortunately being a social issue you will never beat it with rules mechanics in a game.
This has nothing to do with macros, I mine in a hulk in a belt and I am a real guy who just likes industry and market PVP more than shooting you.
This has to do with me playing a game with about as much risk as checkers because the local system makes it impossible to kill anyone who is not looking to risk their ship on purpose. Basically this game promises non-consensual PVP and local removes that.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 05:34:00 -
[7]
So it sounds like there will be a lot smaller blob-free harassment gangs formed between mates who trust eachother going through the border regions of 0.0... Making it the lawless hell where fortune and infamy are made daily, with big gains and big losses every few minutes somewhere in the galaxy...
Sounds like the EVE I dream about when I log out at night.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 06:08:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 20/03/2008 06:12:23
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 20/03/2008 06:08:46
Sounds like people will only work with those they trust and the blob situation will decrease, the super-power alliance will see it's downfall, and EVE will return to being a lawless "Mad Max" universe that I think is so great.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 06:30:00 -
[9]
Also the problem with a cloaked arazu halting all activity in a system is a cloak problem not a local problem. Local is a bandaid to cloaks being broken and you should not justify one broken game mechanic with another.
|
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 07:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vorian Atraties
you guys are asking that local be removed and new scanning tools be added so people can detect if somebody comes into local. Well I just have to ask what's the diff here. if you go into a system you show up in local.. your way. if you go into system you show up on scan. to me that just seams like a change to make a change for no good reason. I personaly can see where you are comeing from. however I like local. I like chatting with people. And yes I do like useing it as an intel tool. I personaly think that the day they remove it would be the day i left the game. and i know your going to say blah blah blah go away carebear.. but meh is how i feel.
vor
No one is saying we should not have a local channel period (or some sort of system to talk to pilots in the same system and shoot the breeze), we are saying it should not an intel tool. Make local only show players that choose to speak.
The reason for the change is for there to be PVP. You want the intel you will have to do more work to get it, I am all about making things in EVE take a lot of time and effort and energy (it motivates people to cut corners and get sloppy, sloppy leads to interesting situations, right now there are not very many interesting situations).
|
| |
|